SPEAKER_00 0:00

Think about the whole product when you're selecting a product to create visual content and think about that end-to-end. So not just the features and capabilities in the checklist, but think about the whole thing documentation, support, onboarding, but also how are you going to pay for this? And is it a sustainable model? Is it going to be a super annoying model? Will you be happy with that aspect of the choice later? And are there ways you can just simplify? Instead of paying for a lot of things, mastering a lot of things, keeping up with a lot of things, can you bring it together under one package? If so, you'll probably save money and you'll probably tear your hair out a lot a lot less.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you are and wherever you're watching from. My name is Matt Pierce, host of the VigilOn. And today, we're gonna be talking about more about AI, but we're gonna take it from a very different perspective because we've talked a lot about the tools that are used to create and some of the things you consider, particularly if you're making videos. Uh but today I want to talk about that the other side of things. That as you go through selecting tools, there's a lot of decisions that need to be made, and that decision process can can vary depending on the cost, depending on the outcome, and the consider all the considerations that go into that. And so we've got a great guest today, Daniel Foster from TechSmith. Our director of monetization is here. He's gonna be talking about some of these decisions because he is an AI geek, he thinks about the video stuff and the cost stuff, because you know what? That's what you do when you're thinking about how how we can survive on the things that we're doing. So, with that said, let me go ahead and introduce Daniel Foster. Daniel, as director of monetization at TechSmith, studies the evolution of software pricing. When not nerding out about things like AI pricing trends, he can be found sailing or playing disc golf. And I'm pretty sure he's also playing Settlers of Catan. With that said, please welcome Daniel Foster.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Thank you very much, Matt. Glad to be on your show.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Yeah, Daniel, it's always great to have you. Uh I'm sure you're still playing Catan, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Indeed, yeah. We just played Seafarers, and my new son-in-law, I my daughter just got married, uh, came and joined us. So it was a really fun family time. I did not win, sadly.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Congratulations and sorry for your loss. Uh well, well, Daniel, before we jump into this heavier topic about uh buying to AI tools and looking at all the structures there, uh, I'm curious, what's one tip about you would give our audience about using images or video in their work? Because, you know, that's something that I think you've done a lot of in your career and at TechSmith and before.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Yeah, I spent a lot of time as a copywriter at Tech Smith. And um one of the things that I told a lot of technical communicator audiences many times is think like a marketer. And it's what I mean by that, because I've I started in marketing, um, is just think about how to make it really concise, really eye-grabbing, and something that like it rewards the person's attention. Like even at work, when you're doing internal communication, friends, it's the attention economy. And when you post something on Slack or in an email, it's gonna get read if it's more visual, more concise, at a glance, uh digestible. So just try to try to think like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

I love that. I love that. And our our one of our previous guests, Mike Taylor, who uh does a lot in the the learning development space, he he has a book now, Think Like a Marketer. So that's we're we're dovetailing perfectly. Love it. Love it. Well, well, Daniel, this is this is a little bit of a uh a different conversation because we've talked a lot about tools or practical approaches to using AI in the kind of video creation work or image creation work. Um, but you've got some thoughts about like uh kind of the the pricing experience, the buying experience can really affect your outcome. So so set us up here. What what is it that you think is so important that we should have this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah, well, I I think I would go back to if I'm just talking to someone who's a creator, right? And they're thinking about how do I serve this need of getting the right tools, the right platforms in place. I would encourage them to think about the features and functions. Of course they already are, right? And that's the checklist. And you're going through does it have these features? Can it do these things? Everyone sort of starts there. And I think what often gets set to the side a little bit are some of the softer things that matter a lot. I mean, obvious ones that we talk about a lot are like documentation and support, right? Like, okay, so great, it's a tool. Can you actually use it? Can you actually use it to do the things you're trying to do? If you run into problems or get stuck, will someone help you? And I think equally, um, just especially in this kind of day and age of AI, equally relevant to the product experience is how are you paying for it? And I think I think whether you're an individual creator kind of on your own, paying out of your own pocket, you know, obviously you're gonna want to think about that. Is this sustainable? Can I actually create the things I need to create at the volume I'm doing it? And if you're in an environment like um, like we are at TechSmith, not a large company, 300-ish person, but you have to get things approved, you need to be able to explain to your boss how much is this gonna cost. And I think where we are right now is that's really challenged by some of the models out there around AI pricing and packaging.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Well, I I've definitely seen that. I'm just gonna say as I I have my personal account that I pay for, and it kind of hurts me every time I see that statement withdrawn. Uh, but I also see creators who are doing a lot of different accounts. Uh and and it is it is a crazy world right now. It feels like Wild, Wild West. And I I I would say I've also noticed that a lot of AI tools, it's I have to be really mindful about what's the model. Because I don't know. I don't always, it's not always clear to me. So what what are the models that you're seeing that are kind of popping up right now? But and I I know this is we're still in a day and age where this could all change, but for you, what what's kind of standing out to you in terms of how uh most typical tools are approaching it?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yeah, and it is changing. And it's been interesting because you know, part of my job is watching like what our competitors are doing. And and what what I've been seeing is that they change a lot. You know, like no one's figured this out yet permanently. But when you talk to people who are also nerding out about monetization, like like I get to do as part of my job, um, they're sort of saying, look, the SaaS age, subscription, you know, um, software as a service, kind of pay per seat per user, per year or per month. Some of them are like, that's long in the tooth, and we we're we're writing the obituary. I think it's too soon for that. I don't think that's where we are, but I do think that there are some new models that we're seeing. So one is sort of pay for usage, and that's not all that new, you know, when the cloud um cloud compute started, right? You would just be like, I'm paying for as I use, that's what I pay for, often with some like baseline fee as well. And then there's this sort of out there model that people are talking about. A few people are getting press for having adopted it, not so much in the video um and content creation space, but elsewhere, which is pay for outcomes. And the idea there, um, one one that actually you know has shipped is is one of the help desk kinds of you know, customer support, customer service platforms. They're like, what we're gonna do is charge you per resolution. So when a customer is able to get their problem solved without having to use you know human labor, then you pay us. But until that happens, and they until that's actually resolved, you don't pay us. So, really interesting model. I think it's an interesting thought exercise for one to think about how does that apply to videos, right? And for one thing, I think that also gets all of us thinking really honestly about well, what is the desired outcome of that video? If I were paying for the outcome, what would I be willing to pay for? And you know, I don't, like I said, I think that's really we're that's like really far out. We're not there yet. And it's it may we may never get there in content creation, but I do think it gets us asking the right questions, which is what is the value that I'm really deriving from this tool or platform?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yeah, so if I'm I'm listening to this podcast and saying, like, oh gosh, well, I'm just I'm just a content creator. Like, I I'm not making all the decisions at my company. They're gonna tell me that I can use, you know, I can use Gemini and I can use this, or I can use, I can use VO3, or I can use sort of like someone else might be making that decision for someone listening to this. Um, what suggestions or advice would you give you? Because again, there's this evaluation process, so maybe they're gonna give some input, which I imagine that does happen uh from a team level. What things should we start taking like into consideration today that would might help me make a better decision so that I'm I can get the things that I need? Because I think that's the problem I I'm experiencing again, personally, when I look at like, should I use Claude? Should I use Gemini? Should I use Chat GPT? Should I use uh, you know, I'm I'm unless I I'm not lit watching every video on LinkedIn that comes up from every person who talks about AI. I'm just saying, like, I got one, I'm sticking with it. Should I? Like, so I'm I'm curious what your thoughts are and help us shaping how we can make better decisions here.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

So, you know, and I I've spent the most time looking at sort of our space, like Tech Smith space. So video creation and think about AI, you know, enabled video creation. And what has happened recently is that a number of the players have actually gone, moved away from a very simple kind of plan-based, you know, um approach, where you're like, I'm on the junior one, I'm on the mid one, I'm on the top one, and I know what I'm gonna pay per month. And instead, they've gone to this model where you're paying a base rate plus you're you're consuming credits. And so just to you know make this easier to grok on to, uh Descript is one. So Descript moved just recently. They now have two currencies. So if you want to use Descript, you have to keep track of your media credits, which is every time you generate anything, you're consuming those, and then your AI credits. Anytime you're using AI, you're also using some number of those credits, but it totally depends on what you're doing. So imagine, Matt, if you're using, you know, Perplexity or Chat GPT, and it's like, well, if you do this kind of question, it's gonna charge you this amount. If you create an image, it's gonna charge you this amount. Or if you make a document, it's gonna charge you that amount. Like, how would you navigate that? And so I think that um the reason we're seeing this real complexity enter the system is because behind the scenes, the people that are like the financial people at these companies, they want to be able to swap in and out different providers, those costs are changing, you know, they're trying to make it predictable for the company. The challenge is it's not predictable for the user. And I think that's a real trap that um folks should be kind of aware of and think about. Like as you're looking at different platforms, think about how you're gonna be able to tell your boss or yourself, you know, future future you, uh, you know, how much is this gonna cost in six months? And if the answer is like, I need a calculator and a spreadsheet and I need to reference all of these complex tables, that's part of the cost of this application you're using that that is unseen, but it's real. Um, all that overhead.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah, it feels like in that scenario, and I'd not thought about the complexity of uh a credit-based system, right? I I've seen it, obviously, but it does feel like um it becomes a barrier because you're always worried about the next thing, especially if you have a finite resource, which I think all of us do. Uh it feels like it's very gets a little bit worrisome. Maybe it's like nowadays where go, beginning of the month, I've got lots of lots of room to experiment and try and do something. End of the month, well, you're getting the bottom of the you get what you get kind of thing at the end. And that that I can I can imagine that's frustrating. But again, as you said, the organizations are having to make those decisions to to do that for all the reasons that they decide to do that. So if uh if I'm facing with that decision, I am doing those spreadsheets, are there good alternatives then to not having to go that? Um and I'm sure each product's gonna have its own model. I know we have our own model. And and I want to be clear, I know that this is not about our model being better than others, about understanding. So um, are there things to look for? The credits, anything else that we should be aware of in terms of kind of the we'll call overhead costs from using AI?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

I think I would look at those, the ones that do have the very credit-based, you know, you're kind of getting um, I would say dinged. I don't know, that sounds derogatory, but you're kind of hitting the cash register every time you do a feature or a function in this in the software. Look for ones that at least have rollover so that if you have a month where you're doing a lot of projects and then a month where you're doing very many projects, that you can roll over as much as possible and not lose it. So, so that is one thing to look for. Um, I would say look for plans that um that are more like the this traditional, right? Where you can say, I'm gonna start on the small plan. And if I need to get more, well then I'll move up to the bigger plan and then and then be able to have more, as opposed to, you know, maybe once a year you have to do that and you change how much you're paying, as opposed to like every month it's a mystery guessing game as to what you're gonna pay. Um, and then I would say, you know, and this is, you know, I will brag on Tech Smith a little bit and just say we have an unlimited Camtasia Pro, right? And and it is really unique. Um for one thing I can say on on, you know, because I look at our costs too, it's a little scary because you're like, oh my gosh, what if people just you know use the heck out of this? Um it could be could be rough on the on the backside, you know, on the financial side. But on the customer side, it's like um if you can find the the unlimited plan and then you don't have to think about it every month, just use whatever you need. Um that's that's a really that's ideal. And there are a few of those out there, including TechSmith. So we're not the only one. But um, yeah, that that's kind of my advice is just to factor that in. Have that conversation either kind of with yourself if you're the one paying the bill, or with your stakeholders about, you know, how is this model and and how sustainable do we really think this is over time.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah, I I I do use a tool that does have credits and it's minutes, it because it it what it does is transcribes and processes and has some AI stuff on the back end, but it's it it's how much video I upload or audio I upload. And it is interesting because I have um what I find myself doing is often being very conservative with like what we put in there. So we because it it doesn't have a great role, doesn't have the great rollover system. And so uh I do wonder like, yeah, what is the worst that happens if I run out? Like maybe I could I could probably get more credits, but it is it's interesting to have to have that in the back of my head every single time I'm using that. And uh I was gonna ask you about the TechSmith plan, so I'm grabbed glad that you you you brought that up. So again, from a I guess from a practical standpoint, Daniel, as you're as you're looking at the world of AI, right? And you're obviously looking at it through this kind of finite lens of uh that most instructional designers, trainers, technical writers aren't looking at it through. If you were to to give us your best kind of prediction for it, do you think the credit model is gonna be the thing that sticks? Do you do you suspect that like people like are we gonna see runaway AI costs and it's gonna cost I because I read about that. Like that's the headlines are like, man, are companies actually gonna make money from AI? It like, no. I'm seeing the headline. I saw a headline recently. So I'm curious from your perspective, and and and again, I I think it's helpful to know that because the other thing costs is is your tool gonna last?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah, right, right. Yeah, do they have a sustainable business model? And and most of us who are baking AI into our products, you know, we have third-party services behind the scenes that we're sort of um depending on, you know, that they're gonna stay in business or that we can swap them out with someone else who comes up. So if I'm looking ahead to the future, I will say, you know, been looking at some industry reports and things, and it's interesting, folks that are adopting these very complex credit-based models themselves say, this is ideal for us, but not for our customers. And they acknowledge, right, this is really complex and hard for customers. So we see this as kind of an intermediary phase, and hopefully we'll evolve out of it to something that is more predictable and um easier, easier for folks to just understand what their costs are going to be next month and next year. So I do think that's the trend, is it's going to go towards more simplified models, um, trying to hold on to our simplified models, you know, so that we can uh just sort of skate to where the puck is going on that. Um I also think that there's an inevitability as assuming, right? Assuming the bottom doesn't fall out of AI, then the inevitability is sort of like the cloud inevitability, which is that it just keeps getting cheaper and cheaper, but also your expectations keep going up. And so I like to frame this for people as, you know, are uh is avatar generation going to get cheaper, stock avatars, right? Well, yes, of course, because all the tech, you know, there'll be more competitive environments, you know, to do the GPUs and have the infrastructure, all that. Will our expectations keep going up? Yes, right. Like we want avatars to look more and more realistic, to have gestures, you know, and and more emotional range and all of that. So our expectations will go up, the cost will go up, and they'll be going down, you know, like at the same time, because everything, you know, the base stuff gets cheaper and the delighters um kind of stay premium. So I do think that um, you know, uh I think that's the trajectory we're on, is that the is that the core stuff is going to continue to get more affordable, both for us and for for anyone who's creating content, and you've you've already seen it, I'm sure. Uh, but then your expectations are gonna grow, and you've probably seen that too.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

So uh let me look at it this way, because uh I the question is basically uh you know, I mentioned I have several tools that I look at, and you know, uh I have lots of friends that are doing this. Um, is there a benefit of finding tools that maybe do like more things? Like some tools are very specialized, right? Uh I'll use the 11 Labs as a great example. They're very specialized in audio voices and they're premium voices, they're fantastic. If I'm in an organization and I'm trying to just manage costs, because we know, I mean, just beyond the cost of AI, costs in general have skyrocketed. Obviously, there's more competitive pressures out there. There's lots of economic things that I don't really understand, but I know if I I see that inside a business. I'm curious, is it advantageous then to find tools that can offer multiple things? So for instance, we do this, right? We offer AI voices. We're introducing the 11 Labs voices so that premium. Is that a way organizations can save some money, or or are there also downsides to that?

SPEAKER_00 18:24

I mean, don't kick me off your podcast for plugging uh Camtasia here, but uh yeah, so uh I mean, I actually think the all-in-one, where you can get either the best premium providers, and that's an example you just gave, right? We're bringing in 11 labs because we've recognized that they are like the premium the best. Um, it's gonna cost us more, right? But we think it's worth it to have that in the package for our customers because it makes it more delightful to use and more likely that you're gonna use it. Um, so I do think that there is something about trying to find the providers who will offer more than just one little slice of the pie. Or think of it as the tool chain. That's kind of the, you know, the classic way is like your workflow from end to end, how many different tools do you need all the way along that workflow? If you can bundle those together and they're doing well enough for you, it's almost certain that you're gonna save money because you're not having to pay for each point solution. And so I think the evaluation there is to ask yourself um, do I have to have the very best for every point in the in the tool chain? You know, and I'm willing to pay premium dollar and have the switching costs and you know, all of that, and the kind of the overhead of training and understanding that tool, or can I find a tool that does it well enough, kind of end to end, and you know, just eliminates a lot of that complexity of having lots of different providers to juggle. I can't answer that for you, but I do think your organization, right? That's a conversation you should be having on your team for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Yeah, absolutely. And I I do want to ask one more point about this kind of idea of like what we're if we're doing our evaluation, uh there's lots about unknown about kind of AI, it feels like we're still, you know, we're I think we're slightly past the prompt generation days where everyone's telling everybody how to uh generate good prompts. Um, but I I am curious because a lot of my audience I think does customer education and we're thinking about how we train people. In your in your kind of view of the world, are there things you should be looking for that from a like support learning side of things that would that you should factor in? Because it does feel like, again, we're looking at whole packages here. Um, and I've definitely been the person who's gotten a tool, and then I'm quickly in my over my head of saying, like, uh, I don't know how to use this. Is that, but is that something that really you think makes a difference in kind of the overall evaluation?

SPEAKER_00 20:44

I will say, um, even even tools that have a lot of integrations, right? And that's like a really nice factor. You're like, ooh, this plugs into this and this plugs into this. Have you ever tried to ask the tech support uh at that company, like, help me with the integration with this other product? And then pretty soon they're like, well, you're gonna need to go talk to them about that. And then you talk to them, and they're like, Well, you need to talk to company A about that. And you're sort of left in the middle, like, well, who owns this integration exactly? Um, so I do think that that is a real risk, right? And I do it myself. I'm plugging some different systems together at Tech Smith, but I realize, like, there's no one who's gonna like help me with the whole end-to-end. And I do think that is one thing, like, as Tech Smith, we're here to support the whole end-to-end, at least within our product. And we try to help you if you're integrating with something else. Obviously, we have the same issue at some points, right? We're like, you're putting it in your LMS. I'm not an expert in that LMS. I can't probably help you with that. But as far as like end to end of script generation, doing voices, doing avatars, doing editing, pulling, you know, bringing in clips, all of that, because it's all in the TechSmith package, we're gonna help you, you know, with content and then with you know, any sort of like back and forth um, you know, questions you have, because we own the whole thing and we we're gonna stand behind it. So So I think that's that is another kind of intangible, if you will, but certainly an important aspect to consider.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yeah, fantastic. Well, Daniel, we're about to go into our speed round question, but I do want to give you a chance. Is there anything that we haven't talked about so far that like what's the one question I should have asked that I haven't yet? We'll we'll give you your final take at the end and all that still, but like I'm curious because uh, you know, we as you said, we didn't know where this conversation might actually lead. So Dad, did I miss anything big that we should we should cover before we move into speed round?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Um, well, you know, I think people are still figuring out a lot of the value of AI for video creation and and what are the most popular pieces. I spend a lot of time looking at our own usage behind the scenes. Um, and so if you ask me what is the most popular form of AI in our package uh today, it's easy. It's voices. Um, you know, we do have some people generating scripts, people translating scripts, people using avatars, but like the most popular thing is text to speech in a lot of different voices. And I can understand why. Because even getting set up today, you know, I'm like, there's setup, and we're not even trying to make a perfect recording here, you know. Thank you for that. But um, you know, when you're trying to like make a really high-quality recording, it's so hard to set everything up and get the audio and the environment and everything else. So voices is huge.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah, and actually, we will have uh whether we we'll get a podcast episode, I don't know exactly when, but we've got some new research coming out about AI voices and its impact on on learning. Uh more research about AI avatars, their impact on learning. So we can look forward to that. That should be coming out. The research hopefully will get released very soon, and then we'll do an episode to follow up on that. But yeah, you're absolutely right. It's it's it's hard to get everything perfect. And those voices, ooh, those, especially those 11 lab voices, man, super, super good. Well, Daniel, I appreciate all the the commentary. Hopefully, this has got people thinking, but we're gonna get to know you a little bit better with some speed run questions, quick, fast questions with quick, fast answers determined by the role of a die. So let me go ahead and jump over there. Now, Daniel, I know you are a game nerd, so I hope you appreciate it. I have a 12-sided die. Not the most popular die, but it, you know, it's one that gets used. So we're gonna go into question number eight here. Okay, so you you've been a content marketer, you've you've written lots of things. I'm curious for you, um, where do you turn for inspiration, particularly in now in your career, your role? Like, what's what's that daily source of hey, helped you get get better at what you do or and be inspired?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

For me, honestly, the last few years it's been podcasts, which isn't very visual. But um, you know, I I just I really think about my feed. I'm really picky about like I can't stand the the ones that are like 80% banter, you know, a little banter along the way, cool. But I'm like, I really love the ones that are highly edited, you know, um uh Planet Money is one, or Freakonomics, uh Radio Lab, you know, ones that are just like really tight. And I I find inspiration there in the storytelling, how to take a complex or big topic and boil it down, how to make it interesting, you know, and and and just what are the little cues, like audio cues that kind of help you know that you should keep listening, you know, and stay with it. So I love it.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Someday when I have a large staff of people to help me to organize all that, maybe the visual lounge could become like freakonomics. Oh, I love freakonomics. So all right. Well, let's go on to our next question here. Roll number two. Oh, it's off the camera. Uh, where is it? It's a seven. So question number two. Oh, what's one hobby or interest you've always wanted to pursue, but you just haven't had the chance yet?

SPEAKER_00 25:55

You know, I think about this time of year, I uh I think about curling. Yeah. Isn't that weird? But I I love ice sports, I like ice skating, and I do ice sailing. I like to sail all year round. And I thought, you know, this looks really interesting. The whole sliding things down the ice. I feel like I want a chance to try that. Um, haven't yet.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

You know, uh just we'll talk afterwards. I got a place you can go. We can try curling. Nice. Okay, one one uh last dice roll here. Let's see. Hopefully, it turns in the camera. Question number three, perfect. Ooh, uh, you you've been at this for a little while, not to imply age by any means, but if you could give advice to your younger self, what would you tell young Daniel?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Hmm. 100% I would stay, I would say stay curious, um, ask questions and want to understand how things work. Like we are in an age, I know we're talking about AI. I have kids that are just entering the job market. It's like terrifying on on one hand to think about like change and how much is going to change and we don't know. On the other hand, human nature doesn't change that much. Um, there's a lot of things that are there's more continuity than there's discontinuity. And so I think staying curious about what is changing, why, and then being able to dig through and say, I don't believe the hype on that one because I I've really gotten to the root of like why that works that way, and that's not probably going to change. So I don't know. That's probably what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Awesome. I love it. Well, Daniel, thank you for again great insights about AI and thinking about how you can, you know, make some maybe some better decisions about your decisions uh and around AI. So if people want to learn more from you, they want to connect with you, where would you recommend they they reach out?

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Uh find me on LinkedIn. That's pretty much where I hang out. Um, you know, if if you're gonna just I I do look at my cold contacts. So if you if you cold contact me there, it's not like I have you blocked. I'll I'll take a look and and hopefully we can connect.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Perfect. And I recommend everyone go. Uh Daniel is a wealth of information, so you can always ask him the and ask him the hard, you can ask him the hard questions. He he he he's used to it. He's really good with that. Well, well, Daniel, as we wrap up our show, we like to give our guests a chance to kind of just share a summary. So, what is your final take?

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Think about the whole product when you're selecting a product to create visual content and think about that end-to-end. So, not just the features and capabilities in the checklist, but think about the whole thing documentation, support, onboarding, but also how are you going to pay for this? And is it a sustainable model? Is it gonna be a super annoying model? Uh, will you be happy with that aspect of the choice later? And are there ways you can just simplify instead of paying for a lot of things, mastering a lot of things, keeping up with a lot of things? Can you bring it together under one package? Um, if so, you'll probably save money and you'll probably tear your hair out a lot, a lot less.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

Perfect. Well, Daniel, thank you for joining me in the Visual Lounge.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Happy to. Always, always glad to talk with Matt.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Absolutely. All right, everybody, you heard it. Like we're talking about whole product decisions, and AI happens to be the thing, kind of du jour. Uh, but you know, this goes to lots of decisions, whether you're looking at LMSs or other systems, whatever it might be. Thinking about the whole package is really critical, right? Because it's gonna allow you to get the things that you need and make the decisions that you need to make better so that you can be accountable for the costs, right? You can that's gonna help elevate you, make you better, more valuable when you understand those things. Whether you just think, oh, I'm just a trainer, I'm just making instructional content, I'm just writing technical documentation. That's gonna help you to level up and make sure that you're making the best decisions possible so that you can get the tools that are gonna empower you to be able to do the job that you are expert at doing. So I hope you hope you've enjoyed this kind of slant into a different type of conversation. Uh, we love trying to experiment with these conversations and understanding more about the systems that we work in, and what we do is we hope it takes you to give you a chance to think a little bit more about these things and gives you a chance to level up every single day. So have a great day, everybody.