SPEAKER_01 0:00

My final take is storytelling is one of the most powerful communication uh skills you can have. And an okay story is better than no story. So don't aim for perfection with your stories. It's all about connection. So give it a go. Learn the skill and share a story.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you are and wherever you're watching from. My name is Matt Pierce, host of Visual Lounge, and today we're gonna be talking about one of those elements that is important to any training program, especially if you're making video, even if you're making screenshots. Using these images, we're gonna be helpful to tell a story. Stories are super important, right? Stories go back. I don't know, so probably someone knows better than I know how far back they go, but really probably to the beginning of us as a culture and species, talking about what we can do and how we can do it and work together and all those great things. And we got a great guest to help us walk us through this today. So let me go ahead and introduce her. Gabriel Dolan knows the power of a great story. While in a senior leadership role at the National Australia Bank, she had an epiphany about storytelling and business and never looked back. Today she's a global expert on strategic storytelling and real communication, working with companies like Uber, EY, Salesforce, Amazon, and the Obama Foundation. She's a best-selling author of eight books, host of the Keeping It Real with Jack and Rail podcast, and her latest book, Story Intelligence, hit number one on Australia's Business Books list and Amazon's global hot new releases. For Gabrielle, helping people communicate authentically isn't just a career, it's a calling, and we are so pleased to have her with us here today. So, Gabrielle, welcome to the Visual Lounge. Thanks, Matt. I'm very excited to be here talking all things storytelling with you. Yeah, so we're I'm I'm just pleased. Like you've got so many great credentials. You've obviously done a lot with being able to talk about story and using story, which telling a story and talking about how to use story are very different things, I think. Um tell us a little bit more about your background. Where what was the epiphany for you about story and that power that comes from using it?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah, look, it you mentioned in the bio that I work for the National Australia Bank. So, you know, one of Australia's largest um companies. And it was, this was, you know, going back 20 plus years ago. It was in my roles, you know, I I started my career in technology and then moved into L D roles, so looking after the training, um, and then moved into um change management roles. So like digital transformation, although way back then we didn't call it digital transformation, we just called it technical change. Um and it was in those those final years um that I noticed that when I started when I shared a story about like why we were delivering the train, why we were doing the change and why we needed to do it. And if I shared a story, it seemed to get the message across better. Like it wasn't, it wasn't a silver bullet, but it was like it people seemed to understand. They go, Oh, yeah, I never thought about it that way, or yeah, I guess that sort of makes sense. And I also then started to notice the really good leaders that I wanted to work for were sharing stories. The the brilliant presenters, you know, sometimes you see a presenter and you go, that was so good. And then you think about why were they good? It was like they were sharing stories. So it was it was 20 plus years ago. I I thought, I think storytelling's a skill. I I think it's absolutely a leadership skill. I think it's a communication skill, I think it's an influencing skill. You know, you also look at the very best teachers and trainers that they shared stories. Um, and because of my LD background, where I had um, you know, was heavily involved in designing and delivering leadership programs, I sort of thought, I think this is a skill, and you know what, I might give it a crack of teaching people. So, and you know, at the time our children were two and five, and I just sort of thought, you know, if it doesn't work out, I'll spend a bit of time home with the kids, and uh, and if it doesn't work out, I'll just go back and get another job. And here we are 21 years later, and eight books later, as you talked about, and it'd be fair to say it's worked out. And so here we are.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah, well that well that that's great, and it makes sense that like as you look at those pieces, right? That story is prevalent. Like I mentioned, uh, I don't know when stories first came about, but we've had them forever. I'm curious from your perspective and what you've learned over these years of studying about story, looking at stories. I'm sure you've heard a lot of great stories. You probably heard some terrible ones too, but like what is the essence of a good story? What should we be looking for? Whether we're making a video, we're doing a training, maybe it's a presentation. Are there key components that we should be concerned about and thinking about?

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, a couple of things on, you know, I I I I I come from Australia, and uh Australia is um, we are the proud uh owners, I guess, of the the longest culture in the world. So, you know, our First Nature's people are over 65,000 years old. So it's and when you look at the the First Nations dream time stories, like the what you literally look at the messages that have been passed down for thousands and thousands of years, it's through the stories that the message has been passed down. So like you it's almost like you've got to look no further than that, than the power of stories. But yes, I have seen heard some brilliant stories, and you're right, Matt. I have seen some really bad stories or heard some really bad stories. I um I often, you know, if I you know, I predominantly I go into organizations and run workshops, and sometimes um, you know, they go, Oh, the CEO or the the head of the department wants to introduce you. And because they're about to tell do, I'm about to do a storytelling workshop, they think they need to tell a story, and and they get up there and they do everything wrong to the point where I'm going, oh my god, I'm just gonna come up after them and like say, Don't start your story that way and do this. And and so now when I have a you know, a client says, Oh, you know, the CEO wants to introduce you, and I said, Can you please ask them not to share a story? Or if they want to share a story, can we have a one-on-one session with them beforehand? Because I I I know I'm gonna end up embarrassing them because you know they're gonna do all the things right. So, so yeah, so maybe I I what about if I share an example of a really great story and then we'll Yeah, and then we'll pick pick a apart um why it's good. Because you I think you said in your intro there's a difference between talking about how good stories are and telling a story. And again, I will I will often uh hear experts talk about the power of storytelling for an hour and not share one story. It was just like, what are you what are you doing? Um so let me let me share an example. So to set it up, I was uh I was running a training workshop with the risk team. So it was the entire risk team and the head of risk, so the chief risk officer, her name was Rosemary. And she said, one of the biggest issues we have is when we talk about risk management to the business units we support, they they sort of look at us and go, You're the you're the risk manager, that's your job. And she, you know, she said, it doesn't matter how many times I've told them I cannot manage your risk for you, all I can do is help you manage your risk. She went, she goes, the message just doesn't get through, the behavior doesn't change. She goes, I've tried everything. I've tried, you know, case studies, examples of the benefits of managing your own risk, the consequences not. She goes, but nothing changes the behavior. And she and out of frustration, she said, I've tried everything. And she tried everything except a personal story. And I'll talk about the different types of stories later, but let me share this example with you. She said, When I was a kid, I grew up on a farm, and growing up on a farm, there was all these dangers we needed to be aware of. But mum would teach us what to do. So we knew what to do if we came across a snake in summer, we knew all the about the potential traps in the dam after heavy rain, and we knew what to do, you know, if we came across a you know, red-backed spider, you know, in the timber heap. And I remember this day I was running down to get my bike, and then I just froze because in front of my bike was this massive copperhead snake. But I remembered everything mum taught us to do. So I played statues, and then I slowly walked backwards until there was enough space between me and the snake, and I ran back to the house to tell mum. And I'm sharing this with you because it reminds me of the role we play in risk. All I can do is give you the skills, knowledge, and advice. So when you come across your own copperhead snake, regardless of what that looks like, you will know what to do. Now, Matt, let me ask you a few questions. Does that story help you understand the role of a risk manager better and the role you play in risk? Does it help you understand the message better?

SPEAKER_00 8:55

I mean, it definitely puts me in a position of saying, like, okay, I know there's risk around it, but it's maybe I need to better understand the risk, but specifically what risk I might be facing in that role? No, because I'm not in that role, but I'm guessing those people could envision what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah. So that so her main message was you need to be, you need to understand the risks. I well, I can I can help you when you get there, but you need to be on the lookout for them, right? So that was her main message. Um Do you think you'll remember that story?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

I will because I was also thinking during the whole time, because I do not live in Australia. Yep, that track, snakes and spiders, they're gonna kill you. But yes, yeah, no, it's easy to remember and it's memorable because you can you can envision, I can picture this little girl on a farm someplace out in the winter. Yeah, yeah. And and you and you and you will remember it.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

And and again, we can talk a little bit about why we remember stories and and even the fact you it visualizes. So, you know, you talk, we'll get into that later about the aspect of how story creates a visual for people. Um, but the final question is if you had to, if I just sort of said, can you retell that story now without losing its meaning? You you wouldn't do it word for word, but you'd be able to retell that story. And so a lot of the times when we're communicating, the biggest challenges we have is do people really understand what we're talking about? Like, do they really understand the message? Can they remember it? So when the meeting's over, the presentation finished, the discussions ended, the training workshops done, can they actually remember that message? And if they had to, could they retell it to someone else? And a story, a personal story, gives you traction on those three things, understand, remember, retell, when you know, facts and figures and data all important, but not sticky. So um that's a stories make your message sticky. And you know, if you and I know from my days, you know, running training, it it's like the one thing I I can I can I can think of at training sessions I was in 30 years ago, and the one thing I remember is a story that we share. In fact, it's it's like the only thing I remember is the story.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah, I mean that's that's I love this analogy and this kind of this connection point here because I do see that with stories and feel that um in a variety of different settings, right? It's great for trainers, it's great for leaders, it's great for everybody. Um, one of the things as as you're talking about this, one being the visual lounge, I gotta think about the visuals here. And I think there's a lot that you can do. Like you told a great story that is memorable, that would have meaning without any visuals. And I think that's great. What role for you have visuals taken on throughout the storytelling? And usually I I I totally get like you don't need the story, like in that story, you didn't need I didn't need the visuals. I was making them in my head. Um but did do visuals play a role for you in the work that you do? Yeah, so so a couple of things on that.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

That the a really good story will help people create a visual in their head. And you know, if I asked you what you saw, and uh I I could share that story with a hundred people, and every person would describe something different. So they've created the visual in their own head, which can be really powerful. I think if you're gonna match visual, and I often, you know, I do presentation training as well, a storytelling training, and it was like if you're gonna have like an image, I would say I to me it's like make it an image that's related to your story, and if you're sharing a personal story, so say for example, Matt, you're sharing a story when you were like, you know, 10 and you won a trophy about something to be like, I would say the image should be of little 10-year-old Matt holding the trophy up, and so that that's that's the image. Or I in fact, that just reminded me of a time when I um coached someone and they were sharing a story when they they played um cricket, and they were and they were like about 18 when they started because you know, and they said I you know, I just play to you know really be friends, have have friends and you know go out for a drink and stuff. And he I I forget the story, but he the the talked about that the first year they had a trophy for the worst fielder, and and he he won the worst fielder, and then you know, because clearly it was a fun thing, and then the next year he won best fielder because he thought I need to improve on this. And as he was saying that, I said, Have you got a photo? He went, No. He goes, but I've still got the trophy, and I go, the trophy of the worst fielder or the trophy of the best fielder? He goes, No, I've got the trophy of the being the worst fielder, that's that's the one he kept, and it was just this little tiny trophy, and he he was he was on stage talking to you know a hundred so people, and then he pulled the trophy at right at the end. So it's uh you know, so the visual to me that that's the visual of the trophy, like the prop. Um, but I would say if you're going to use a photo or any type of visual and you're sharing a personal story, my advice is have a personal photo to touch it, not not a like stock image. I I would, you know, and even if you're putting, you know, sharing something on LinkedIn, for example, I would go the story itself or the story and a personal photo, but don't do a personal personal story, don't share a personal story with a stock image, um, is is the advice I give. And so, you know, I'd be interested in your thoughts on that as well.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah, I mean, I I'm right with you. Although I can definitely, I can imagine there's some people who feel that's vulnerable, that's really vulnerable. And I but I do think good stories lead to vulnerability and it it allows you to put it out there. For for you, let's talk a little bit about that, right? Because it does seem like I think there's a you you've been around coaching people. You're obviously a great storyteller. You've you worked at your craft, like you said, it's a skill, and I I love that because I think sometimes people think talents are things you can't learn. And this is obviously something you can learn. So you know, I and I work with a lot of we talk to a lot of people who are in business and trying to convey a brand story or bigger message than it's not maybe not always personal, but what what advice do you typically find that you give people about being vulnerable when maybe it's awkward? And then, you know, after that, I'd love to hear even advice about just like how do I get good at this? I'm thinking I'm gonna be really selfish now, and everybody else gets to listen to you. Uh you you we connected, so I'm gonna take advantage of the opportunity to get some coaching.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Let's do let's do live coaching.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Well, let's talk about vulnerability first, because I do think that's hard. And in brands, particularly when a brand's trying to tell a story, whether it's you're you're training, you know, you're inside an organization doing training, or maybe it's a customer, you're teaching a customer. How do you make sure that that that's hitting the right notes and not awkward or maybe over the top or you know not hitting?

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah, yeah, Matt, you're totally right. One of the biggest barriers to people sharing stories is vulnerability. And it and it's not that the story is a vulnerable story, it's not like the story is, you know, about these deepest, darkest, you know, scary, bigger heart moments. It just could it's just the concept of sharing a personal story. So, like I mean, even if you take that example of you know sharing a story when you're 10 or you know, 18 and won a trophy for the worst fielder. Even that concept of sharing a personal story in business, there are so many people that go that think, uh, well, it's not it's not professional, or people will judge me, or what what if no one's interested? So, and that's a that's a that's a they're very real fears that then then then people go, Oh, it's not appropriate to share a story, which which is you know, it's actually that's a very convenient story they're telling themselves because they don't have the courage to do it. So one of, you know, I often people say, What do you love about my job? What I love about my job is you know, I get people that have been in business forever, whether it's leaders or trainers or salespeople, and I teach them the power of storytelling, but how to do it. And often they come out of, you know, in during the workshop, they will go, it never ever occurred to me to share a personal story in a business setting. So it's almost like I give them permission to go, no, it's not only this, it's not only professional, but it's going to be the most powerful way you can communicate your message. So you need to do it. And then and then I give them, teach them the framework of how to do it, which gives them the capability, the skill to do it, which I then hope leads to the confidence that they now feel more confident to do it and to give it a go. And and I I know once once people have given it a go, the feedback they get, like I've had so many emails over the 20 years going, oh my god, I shared this story with my team, and I couldn't believe how you know the amount of people that came up and thanked me for it, and it's like, and they're going, this storytelling really works. And I go, I know it really works. So but but I also know and I also acknowledge the fact that it takes a little bit of um vulnerability, and and the cool thing is when you share stories, especially sharing stories of when it didn't work out, that and that that is showing vulnerability. And and what I mean by that, for example, um, you know, I have been involved in values rollouts, you know, a lot of training goes around value, what are the values? And um predominantly I work with leaders to communicate the company values through personal stories, and um, you know, as that let's just say, for example, you know, Matt, one of your company values is integrity. And, you know, I would work with leaders to go, well, what does that really mean to you? And get them to, and you'd be surprised how many people go, ah, and they'll say something, and I go, what else does it mean to you personally? And they'll go, uh, oh, I don't know, I haven't really thought about it this much before, right? So, but let's just say, for example, you know, I said, What does integrity mean to you? And you said a few things, and it was like, you know, um, it it means if you say you're gonna do something, do it, right? That that's what it really means to me. I would say, well, let's can you think of a time in your life where you have sense you're gonna do something and you didn't do it? And that people go, and you and you would like we've all we've all done that, right? And so sharing a story about when I didn't live up to the value and the regret I have, and the and you're gonna remember stories because it's normally a regret, they can be your most powerful stories you can share. Um, and you know, uh and I I look at some of the very best in like for example, the very best induction programs or onboarding programs. It is it is of senior people in the organization sharing stories around the values of both when that when they haven't lived them, but then also of employees when they have lived them. So um I I just sort of think you can't really bring values to life without stories.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Well, I love I love in that that there's that that counter, almost a counterexample, right? I I failed, I didn't do the thing I was supposed to do, the regret, because I do feel like particularly in corporate, right? Like it's it's success, success, success. Learn, but uh and you know, in tech particularly, I know that there's like this fail fast mantra, but even then it's like, well, I failed, but then you know, I was a success. And I I do think uh sometimes so that's really interesting to hear you say that and express that because I do think there's really a lot of value in saying, like, this didn't go the way I I thought it should have, or I wanted it to, or man, sometimes they just really screwed up. And and because I do think there's a I don't know in Australia if it's as prevalent, but sometimes there's this fear culture in the US of like, you know, you fail, you're out, you're gonna you're gonna lose your job and you're not gonna be successful. And even when I talk to younger employees and things like that, they're always really nervous. Like, I screwed up, what's gonna happen? It's like screwed up. I've I've been in 20 years I've screwed up, like every week I do something, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yeah, yeah. So the difference so really good uh points, Matt. And I would say the difference, if you're a leader and you want to create a culture of it's okay to, you know, screw up and you know, because we've all done it, as opposed to just saying that, like it's opposed to saying to your young employees, it's okay to screw up, we've all screwed up, and you know, instead of just saying that, share a story of when you did screw up. Like share a story of when you were young and this is what you did. And because that means that's gonna mean a hell of a lot more than just saying it's okay to fail. You know, you know, we have a fail culture, and as long as you learn from it, yeah, all good words, they're words, but the Story will mean something. It was actually, you know, in your intro, I you you talked about my like the podcast, and I do have a podcast called Keeping It Real with Jack and Raoul. I'm I'm Ral, by the way. My younger sister couldn't pronounce my name, Gabe Rao. I just said Ral. But my my daughter, who's 25 and she's just started out in her career, she actually said, Mum, can you do an episode of When You've Screwed Up? And because she said, Because when you when I make mistakes at work, I I just think it's so bad and it's going to be the end of everything. She goes, It would be really good when you've made mistakes to listen to an episode of all the like the mistakes you've made, but of other people, the mistakes they're made, what the mistake was, and sort of where they are now. And she just said it would just be so like nice to hear that everyone, the stories of other people screwing up. Um, but it's it's it's hearing the stories that helps you really understand. Yeah, we've all we've all been there, we've all done that. Um, that that people go, oh yeah, yeah, now I get it, I get it. So they get it through the stories.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Well, I would listen to that episode because I think that that sounds like just a fantastic one. Um I do want to make sure we're getting uh time to get to our speedrun questions and things like that. So you again, you've you've got such a depth of experience, and I I I would love to maybe we'll have to have another episode where we have you back on sometime where we talk. But I'm curious, top three things. What are three tips you would give us to test you story better wherever we might be? Maybe that's too much, maybe there's only two, but two or three.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

I'll give you some tips. So, first of all, if you're sharing a personal story or any story, it's got to be true. It has to be true. And so, you know, a lot of people sort of go, uh, you know, if it as long as it gets a message across and it's made up, surely that's okay. It's not okay. It's not okay. You know, if Rosemary shared her copperhead snake story, and then you know, you said, Oh, I really loved your story. I grew up on a farm too. Where did you grow up? And she said, Oh, I just made that up. Like, her credibility's gone, right? Like, it's gone. It's it's it's it's it's more than a little white lie, it's more than a lie. It actually feels like a betrayal of trust. It feels like manipulation. So my key thing is absolutely true. And I and I truly believe, um, and it's the whole reason I wrote my latest book, in a world of AI-generated content, our stories, our authentic stories, are needed now more than ever. So they've got to be true. Let me let me do some other tips of how to uh so stop and start, how to start your story and how to end it. I think the most powerful way to start a story is with time and place. So, you know, when I was a kid, I grew up on a farm. Or, you know, uh last year we went on a uh holiday to Africa. So straight away, time and place indicates you're about to tell a story. One of the worst ways to start a story is let me tell you a story. You know when people go, let me tell you a story, it's like please don't. It's like and and also worse than worse than let me tell you a story is when people go, let me tell you a true story. Because that implies this one's true, but all the other ones aren't true. So it puts doubt in people's heads. So starting is is really important. Um and then and the other end, you don't want to end your story with the moral of the story is because there's a real the real skill is in how you end it. You want people to get the message, but you don't want to be like hitting them over the head with it. Um and and so a final bonus fourth tip is make sure your stories are succinct. So my my advice is around 60 seconds, 30 seconds, great, 90 seconds, okay. But if you were going two minutes, people are thinking get to the point. And the moment anyone starts thinking get to the point, you're losing them. You've you've you know you're being disengaged. So there's four tips for for you all.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

I love it, I love it. And I I love the succinct one because that was one of the things I've been I think about going into this is that people often way too much, right? Way just way too much detail, way too much information.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Yep, yep, yep. Right. Well, unnecessary detail is, and I just go, you don't need that, you don't need that. So I think here's a fourth, a fifth bonus one. Be very clear on your message and the one single message per story. If you're trying to get too many messages across, then yeah, your story's gonna go on forever. That's one single message per story.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Awesome. Well, uh Gabrielle, I want to uh move into our our speed round questions. And normally you can see I'm I'm for people that normally watch the show, I'm not in my office, I don't have my dice. So I'm gonna ask you to pick a number between one and twelve, and I'm gonna give you these random questions that you don't know what you're about to be asked. I know.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

I mean, part of me is a bit scared. Oh, can I randomly like you? I'll just pretend I'm rolling the dice like bang.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Okay, four. Four. Okay. What's your guilty pleasure song or movie that you well, secretly, but not so secretly, because we're asking you about it. Love.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Oh God, that's a really good one. Um, my secret guilty um song. I don't know the name of it, but you know that song, I get knocked down. But I get Are You Ever Gonna Keep Me Down? I love that song.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

There you go. I don't that's uh it is a great song and well worth uh having it as your kind of a guilty pleasure to listen to.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

And and and and anything from Kylie Monogue. I love Kylie Minogue. I know I know Kylie Minogue's not great in like massive in the States. She's massive in in the UK and Australia. Anything from Kylie Monok.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Perfect. Well, let's have you roll that imaginary dice again. Okay, one, two, two.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Here we go, here we go. Uh nine.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Number nine. Okay, you you asked for it. Uh what's what one thing you're most proud of in your career?

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Um, you know what? I I I've spoken about my books. I I failed my final year of English at school. And by one one percent, one percent. Um, and the fact that I have writ written and published eight books is the only person that's more surprised from me for doing that is my English teacher. So yeah, I'm proud of, I'm proud of that.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

You as as you should be. Well, well done. And yes, it's because writing a book not only just from a writing standpoint, it's it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. And you know, I I have a good editor that will, you know, I'll write, and she'll just go, no, I've deleted that. I don't I don't even know. That doesn't even make sense. Or she'd come back and go, what it, what, what were you trying to say here? And you look at it and you go, I'm not sure what I was trying to say there. Or, you know, like a thousand words gets reduced to a sentence. And I was like, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yep. Well, let's have you do one more and then we wrap up.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Uh let's go seven.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Number seven. Okay. Well, this this will be a tough one. Uh, if you had to shift careers and out of the world of teaching people about stories and using stories and being an author, could do anything, what would you do?

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Stand up comic, stand up comic. I've done it, I've done I've done it a couple of times, stand-up comedy, and um I love it. Uh, but yeah, if yeah, it's one of those things. If you if you never failed, I'd that's what I would do.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Okay, yeah. Well, it doesn't say you wouldn't fail, you'd just be you trying. Oh right.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

I'm like, I okay, shit. Okay, if there's a chance of failure, then yeah, I'm not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

You you just like the you like the punishment, uh being up there trying to get people to laugh.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Well, you know, when I do I do keynote speaking, and you know, I my aim is to make it entertaining. And so a lot of people, you know, come up afterwards and go, oh my god, you should be a stand-up comic. And it was like, no, if you've got if you're a stand-up comic, you've people expect you to be funny, right? But when you're a keynote speaker at a conference, they're not expecting funny. So you only have to be slightly funny, and people think you're hilarious. So I I do sort of like this gig better, but you know, it's like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

It's nothing worse than a bad stand-up comic, right? Like so a bunch of keynote all but all day long.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Oh my god, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Well, Gabrielle, this has been fantastic to be able to chat with you and learn more about story. For people who are interested in maybe learning from you, following you, where do you uh where would you invite them to connect with you and what what what would you like to share with us?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah, yeah. So I'm on LinkedIn, so absolutely get on LinkedIn and my website, my website's just gabrielland.com. But uh, you know, it's um my latest book, Story Intelligence, The Craft of Authentic Storytelling Made Smarter with AI. Um, you know, that that's just been released. And that's I sort of feel like that's 20 years of my life in that book. So if you're just thinking, you know, yep, I understand the power of storytelling, want to get better at it, you know, it's probably the best $25 investment you'll make is to get the book.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Fantastic. And we'll make sure all those things are linked down in the doobly-doo down below. Um so Gabrielle, we we like to end our show the same way we ask our guests. What is your final take?

SPEAKER_01 31:35

My final take is storytelling is one of the most powerful communication uh skills you can have. And an okay story is better than no story. So don't aim for perfection with your stories. It's all about connection. So give it a go. Learn the skill and share a story.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

I love it. Well, thank you so much for joining me in the Visual Lounge. Thanks, Matt. I love what was just said because think about story and how many places it applies. It is that connection, as we were just told, right? It connects you to another person because you can see yourself, you can feel. Actually, I think there's an emotional connection with neuron, uh, nerves and all that stuff that's happening. And and story just makes everything a little bit better, clearer, understandable, and relatable. And so as you're making video, as you're making training, as you're doing all these things, use the power of story, as we just heard. Use the power of the connect, but also bring in those powerful images, whether it's video or images, to tell the story in a way that's gonna really bring that message home. And of course, we hope at the Visual Lounge that you're taking these opportunities to learn and grow every single day. And we hope you take a little time to level up today. Thanks everybody.